Legislative Watch: E15 Back In The News



September 04, 2012

The United States Court of Appeals has dismissed a lawsuit by three separate groups against the implementation of E15 and its approval by the EPA. Check out the reasoning behind the judges’ ruling and what this means for drivers of historic vehicles.

Late last month, the United States Court of Appeals dismissed a challenge of the Environmental Protection Agency’s authority to permit 15-percent ethanol (E15) content in gasoline for 2001 and newer model year cars and light trucks.

Plaintiffs in the case included groups representing the grocery, auto and petroleum industry. Judges David Sentelle and David Tatel found the concerns advanced by petitioners were primarily speculative in nature and not based on any concrete, documented concerns on behalf of their representative client base. They ruled that the implementation of E15 was simply an option and not a government-mandated requirement being forced into the marketplace.

In 2009, the EPA moved to increase the amount of ethanol allowed in gasoline from 10 to 15 percent. EPA approved E15 in October 2010 for use in cars from model years 2007 and later, and then in January 2011 approved the fuel for use in models made from 2001 to 2006.

The Historic Vehicle Association will continue to monitor this development along with the progress of H.R. 3199, which concerns the EPA’s findings, testing methods and authority with regard to the use of E15.

 

Comments

  1. Hal Mola Spokane, WA

    The whole ethanol thing is just stupid. I put 10% ethanol in my tank and my fuel mileage drops by 10%. The corn people claim the have reduced America's foreign oil by 20%. Sounds good until you realize that we increased our domestic oil production by the same 20%. And don't even get me started on equipment failures.

  2. Robert Barea United States

    I put non-ethanol (REC 90) into my 1970 Pontiac GTO for best performance.

  3. Vince Muniga Detroit

    Talk about beating a dead horse. How many of these E15 refineries have been shuttered over the past four years? Given the current drought and the affect it has had on the corn crop, just how are folks going to even afford this gas when it is produced from corn. Talk about an open door to increase fuel prices.

  4. Thomas A. Marabello Spokane, Wa.

    We have a distributer here in Spokane that always offers one pump that dismenses ethonol-free gasoline---I hope that they will be able to continue; as long as the "option" dosen't become the all-too common "mandate".

  5. Bob Deming Vancouver, Washington

    Because I do not drive it often, I have had a lot of trouble with phase separation in my 1991 Mercedes 300SL when using E10. I can't imagine having to go to E 15. It is hypocritical of the EPA to say that the of E15 will be optional. All distributors use all the ethanol they can because of the price advantage (to them).

  6. Greg Antone Cape Cod, MA.

    What spawned this really stupid idea about putting ethanol in gas-powered engines? 10-15% less imported fuel means less we pay at the pumps? Is that the thinking behind it? Typical America. Thinking you're saving the day by trying to solve the fuel problem with a "quick-fix, without thinking of the long-term effects. Eliminate all the cars built prior to 2001, and you're going to have more than just a fuel crisis to deal with. That's right, e~l~i~m~i~n~a~t~e! The damage that's caused by the addition of ethanol in our street fuel will cause many cars to become either undriveable or so unreliable they'll be a hazard on the highways.Not to mention the wiping out of our automotive history, at least the parts that matter. For instance, all the restored and preserved antiques, classic and muscle cars. No more antique and classic car shows. No longer will memories be stirred from the appearance of an old car like "my dad used to have one of these." or..."this was my first car when I was in High School." To erase 5 generations of auto enthusiasm, in my opinion, is a TOO large a price to pay, in trying to save a few cents at the gas pump.

  7. John PA

    Ever since Deathanol was added to our fuel my sales of fuel pumps and related items has increased threefold. What a wonderful product. Raises the cost of food, hurts the porr, and ruins vehicles. What else would I expect from our Government. Then the additives used to counteract the deathanol causes higher pollution. What a country. Judges doing chemistry. WOW!!!!!!!

  8. Mike Orchard Park ,NY

    I would much rather eat my corn in the many forms it may end up as, than burn it in any of my cars!

  9. Gregg Zimbelman East Grand Forks MN

    I have spent the last 12 yrs, working on small engines, I can tell you that none of the manufactuers of small engines will cover damage caused by e15, The companys have placed stickers on the motors of lawmowere, snowblowers, trimmer, chainsaws, warning not to use e15. I have seen the damage of what e10 does to the fuel lines on this type of equipment, and I know what it has done to the fuel system of my boat. I would love for the EPA and the judges to show me the difference in the fuel systems of my lawn mower and snowblower, and boat, and 2000 honda motorcycle,compaired to that of my 96 jeep, 05 subaru, or me 08 pontiac, not to mention my classic 68 chev capric or my 36 ford pickup. Maybe when the fuel system fails on my cars, the judges that know so much about the effects of ethinol on the rubber components of these systems will be willing to replace my full systems or cars with one's that can not be harmed by e15. I wonder what proof the epa used to support thier case, Sorry, lost my head, the epa as the defendent does not have to prove anything, they can lie all they want and the judge will believe them. That is another case of government looking out for government and not giving a crap about the middle to low class people.

  10. MARY WILSON LAKELAND FL

    Ethanol gas in my 1930 Model A Ford reacted with the lining of the gas tank, causing the carburetor to become clogged with a black tarry substance - it is destructive to old antique cars. Ethanol free gas is very hard to find, and more expensive than the gas readily available at most gas stations. I understand the ethanol gas is also damaging to other small engines, boats, lawn equipment as well as all antique, and classic cars. Bad idea ! I agree with Greg Antone, above.

  11. Dan Southern MN

    I was excited to find ethanol free in my small town. Still on the first tank. It no longer diesels. The market place and auto engineers should decide what fuel we use.

  12. roger thibault west sacramento ca,

    This is corporate farming interest (big Ag) doing whats best for them through the government they have bought, Corn subsidies mean big profits for them and we live in a country which puts profits before people, period. Ethanol has caused serious problems in the marine industry already (fiberglass tanks don't hold up to the solvent effect of ethanol) so its more law suits, or parish the thought, elect congress people who are not in the pocket of big business.

  13. Pete Williams Fraser, Mi

    We had trouble with our ATV and Honda outboard motor this spring. When we took it into the shop they said that 75% of their repair business at each shop was because of ethanol damaged fuel systems. So more is better? I think not! The judges and the EPA must be educated to understand the lifespan of off road vehicles, farm equipment, marine engines as well as collectable cars and trucks that use gas. Think about it... Farm and marine engines often have a life span in excess of 50 years! Unless there is a mandatory retrofitting required by manufacturers by the government and paid by YOU this kind of fuel damage is not going to cease. In Michigan the only place one can get non ethanol gas is at a marine fueling station or at an airport. The prices at those places is very expensive per gallon (> $5 per gallon). In Michigan it is mandatory to dispense ethanol at road stations. At least in Wisconsin, where we have our old equipment, there are stations which have the option to not carry ethanol. Some carry non ethanol in mid or premium grades. This is ridiculous and is pandering to the Agricultural lobby. Corn which should be used for food is being squandered and used for fuel. In a drought year this is absolutely stupid.

  14. Brad Wik Chapin SC

    I have a small company that restores British sports cars. I recently had two Triumphs come into the shop a gal had inherited from her Dad, both had been sitting for 5+ years. Had to completely re-build the TR6 engine, ethanol in the fuel had gummed up the cylinders, breaking piston rings, bending lifters and broke rocker arms etc. Had to re-sleeve two cylinder and buy new oversized pistons. With the TR4, the first thing I did was to attempt to drain the fuel tank; the fuel sending unit was completely coated with a thick, black tar-like substance and the aluminum housing unit was "eaten"; it was impossible to get all this black goop out of the tank, we replaced the tank instead. I took photos and FYI, this black tar dries into black "plastic" (saved in a baggie). Please, anything you have that is used intermittently, use ethanol free fuel only.

  15. Philip Fort Worth, Texas

    Ethanol in our gas is a crock. All the above writers hit it on the head. Has the epa even done what they were created to do? NO!! EPA needs to go away with ethanol. Anyone who has a marine vessel and puts e10 in their vessel has already knows the effects or will soon find out the effects as these engines run at a lot higher rpm for a longer duration than passenger vehicle engines. I just got done replacing an engine that cost $18,000.00 in a yacht. Not to mention a ski boat engine & replaced all lawn equipment. E10 is WRONG!! I currently have to travel 50 miles to a non ethanol pump to fill 2 15 gallon gas caddies to use in my motorcycle and classic car. ETHANOL NEEDS TO GO AWAY!!! IT WILL CREATE MORE DAMAGES THAN IT WAS INTENDED TO FIX!!

  16. Mike Gregory Aiken, SC

    I just rented a newish Toyota at a major airport. While giving the car a fill-up, I noticed that the car's gas cap very prominently showed a warning NOT to use E15, in addition to a similar warning not to use E85. We're not talking about snow-blowers or antique cars, but an actual current model automobile sold by a rather large auto company. Truly we must be a nation of dunces - even the Japanese say so.

  17. Mike Gregory Aiken, SC

    I just rented a newish Toyota at a major airport. While giving the car a fill-up, I noticed that the car's gas cap very prominently showed a warning NOT to use E15, in addition to a similar warning not to use E85. We're not talking about snow-blowers or antique cars, but an actual current model automobile sold by a rather large auto company. Truly we must be a nation of dunces - even the Japanese say so.

  18. Mike Gregory Aiken, SC

    I just rented a newish Toyota at a major airport. While giving the car a fill-up, I noticed that the car's gas cap very prominently showed a warning NOT to use E15, in addition to a similar warning not to use E85. We're not talking about snow-blowers or antique cars, but an actual current model automobile sold by a rather large auto company. Truly we must be a nation of dunces - even the Japanese say so.

  19. Ray Hulick Liverpool NY

    Just want all to know that in the Syracuse NY market we now have all the fast track gas stations have 91 octane ethanol free gas. The cost is ten cents more. It is also avaiable at some other stations. I have a 1992 lumina chevy that I now use ethanol free fuel and grt better preformance.

  20. Denise L. Clumpner Fond du Lac, WI

    NO WAY will I burn that crap in my 1955 Pontiac convertible or my 1969 GTO. I make note of the gas stations here in Fond du Lac that keep a pump without ethanol, and I patronize and personally thank those vendors for keeping the non-ethanol premium. Fleet Farm here only sells ethanol in their lowest octane, cheapest fuel. What does that tell you? I agree that we have a bunch of idiots who are heading this (and obviously they care nothing for the beautiful cars many of us put our blood, sweat, and money into in order to preserve automotive history for the generations to come) so it is up to US as consumers and the people who end up paying the salaries of those idiots to GET RID of them. Folks, educate yourselves about candidates who are running for office, and GET RID of the ones who are taking down what we worked hard for. The day I can't drive my classic cars is the day I don't want to live in the US anymore! Of course, the upper 1% will still have THEIR toys, I'm sure. I bet no one cares how much their yachts and private airplanes, etc. pollute...........

  21. David Evans Virginia

    Here's a question for you chemistry savvy types: is there a way to separate ethanol from gasoline? Can we cooked it out or something? I'd be happy to throw out ten percent of my fuel in order to keep the fuel systems functioning in my old cars. And, may it please the court, when I moved from New Jersey where ethanol free is not available to Virginia's Shenandoah Valley where ethanol free is pretty common, both my old MG and my Porsche 914 started running normally again. I spent hours adjusting and modifying to use ethanol in NJ and it just didn't work. One fresh tank of Virginia Pure Premium and everything was fixed. Like, in twenty minutes of running. Get this stuff gone!

  22. Rick J NY

    The only reasoning I can see for the ethonol being forced upon us that it's putting revenue in the pockets of those who have some direct or indirect receptive connection to the profits it generates. There has been much opposition to ethanol by many individuals who have many years experience in the gas engine and its' maintenance. Yet decisions are made by those who have absolutely NO experience at all, nor care to. The biggest opposition in my view is that ethonol treated gas lessens your miles per gallon, therefore, needing to use more fuel in the long run and defeating the purpose all-together!

  23. ROBERT bUFFALO,N.Y.

    Ethanol gas is Crap,it reduces your mpg, clogs up your fuel filters,destoys rubber parts in your engines system plus costing more to produce.If the government and the EPA think its so great then just the government should use it and give us back our regular gas.And they wonder why this country is so screwed up.Corn is for food,get it!!!

  24. WES JAGER ROMULUS MI.

    NEXT THE GOVERMENT WILL BE TELLING US WHAT COLOR CAR TO BUY WHAT TIRES TO BUY WHAT KIND OF OIL TO BUY & USE ANOTHER PUNCH IN JAW BY BIG BROTHER.

  25. Van Bayer Houston, TX

    Ethanol replaced MTBE in gasoline to assist with catalytic converter operation. MTBE did not break down in streams and ponds. Ethanol has less btu content than gasoline, but higher octane (100). It works fine in fuel injected cars designed for it. It will degrade rubber parts and is somewhat corrosive (less than Methanol). It works OK in my 355 Chevy powered rat rod, but will boil if the engine gets hot in a traffic jam. This engine is carbureted. On a different side of things, livestock feed has doubled in price in recent years due to the demand for corn. In response to the demand, less, that's correct, less acreage is now planted in corn. Is that due to the farm agency, farmers, or big business?

  26. Larry Jackson Sterling, CO

    I have been restoring British cars and find the E10 dissolves the rubber fuel lines and clogs the needle float valve, all of the rubber lines will need to be replaced, don't know what it is doing to the rest of the engine and can't imagine what E15 would do? The government is taking over all aspects of our lives and now they are trying to ruin(yes - RUIN not RUN) our health care,(Obama Care) control the financial system, auto industry, etc. Are we just stupid or lazy? We have a bunch of people who have only known the political life and never had to make a real living or been in business for themselves. I have been in business for 36 years and I DID BUILD THAT! Rules,Regulations and Mandates, including E15, are the back door to control. How can someone with a legal background evaluate the scientific facts and look at the big picture? Everyone should read Barry Comminger's "Science and Survival" as well as Orwell's "1984" we have discovered the enemy and "it is Us" Keep the Hope and Change and get the government out of our gas tanks, bedrooms and business. OK, now I will step off the soap box, but the older I get the more I realize it is impossible to please everyone, but real easy to piss everyone off.

  27. Jerry Meiergerd Bowling Green KY

    SOMEBODY, PLEASE BRING BACK MY LEADED FUEL!!! My cars aren't feeling well..

  28. Steve Virginia

    I agree with everything that was written above!! I work in the petroleum industry at a storage facility. Not sure what level of oil companies were involved in the suit but that was a token thing...ethanol lines their pockets too!! One thing that has not been mentioned is the subsidies that the oil companies are getting for using the stuff...for every gallon of ethanol they use they get money (OUR TAX DOLLARS) back from the government!! So we pay for the crap twice...at the pump and from our taxes that we pay!! And not to mention the price of food at the grocery store because we are taking corn from the food chain and putting it in gasoline!!! Just my $.02 worth!!!

  29. Henry Grimm green bay, wi

    what ever happened to government for the people, by the people, of the people? All we have now is government against the people, government for the big companies! Will the people in power ever listen again?

  30. Michael Owens Greenwood IN

    I also have had fuel pump and carbeurator failure from the use of ethanal tainted gas. They were brand new components, name brand, with very few miles when failing. Costly repair, but since staying away from this fuel, no more problems. Do not get me started on my thoughts of how the government seems to know what is good for us.

  31. Albert Seminatore :as Vegas, NV

    I have a 1960 Austin Healey. I lost track of how much I have spent in an attempt to keep it running. New Fan, New Radiator, New Carbs. THen the temp goes to 100 degrees and you can hear the fuel boil away. Forget driving home call the tow truck or plan to wait. Why not provide non ethonal fuel for use in engines of Historical Vehicles. What is being done is absurd.................... Al

  32. David Allen TX

    E10 is causing vapor lock in very hot Texas weather on older carburated cars like my MGB.. can't even imagine what E15 will do!

  33. John Neuenburg San Rafael, CA

    My 1944 Ford M20 Armored Utility Car has a 53 gallon laminated RUBBER bullet-sealing tank. I am very nervous about the lifespan of this nearly irreplaceable part. The #1 thing the HVA can do is fight the government on this, wielding the power of a million or more members, aka VOTERS. The #2 thing they can do is publicize the exact locations of every retailer of ethanol-free gas so we can all vote with our wallets. Same goes for fuel distributors who carry non-ethanol gas, so that independent gas station owners plus fleet managers concerned with bad fuel economy can find a source. Some of those people are classic car buffs and will want to help their hobby via their own purchasing decisions. The market can fight politics to a point, however your thoughtful vote this November can help fix this problem.

  34. Robert Cancellieri Pueblo West, CO

    Has anyone researched the amount of diesel it tales to produce the ethanol? Would be most useful if the amount of petroleum energy it takes to produce ethanol energy. To put it another way, if I start with one million btus of diesel, how many btus of ethanol would I get. Need to count the energy used by the farm equipment, to pump the water, transport the crops and refine the ethanol along with the methanol it takes to make it unable to be consumed. And that does not even consider the opportunity costs of the food value forgone.

  35. a.j. schieber WA

    I add 1/2 qt. of Dexron ATF to the tank of my 1956 chrysler at every fill up,to combat the negative affects of the corn syrup that is unavoidable to purchase around here.After 7 years,so far so good.

  36. Philip de Vos Amherst VA

    It goes back to Regan and Butts who's heads were both... Soon, we had the big corn collapse and ever larger supports for huge farms while the real farmer no longer is alive. Now GMO... while weeds become super weeds and agent orange is used on super expensive, resistant, KING CORN. followed by dying pollinators and polluted natural corn crops. Look at congress ...VOTE ACCORDINGLY WHICH IS DEMOCRAT.

  37. Jon Burrows South Carolina

    Judges...lets be serious, they are all appointed and support the people and their beliefs that have nominated them for their bench seat, like you and I these people put their pants on one leg at a time, their opinions, well,,,,,,,that's like comparing their opinions to armpits,......everyone has at least one, and most of the time, they stink!!!!!

  38. Jon Burrows South Carolina

    Judges...lets be serious, they are all appointed and support the people and their beliefs that have nominated them for their bench seat, like you and I these people put their pants on one leg at a time, their opinions, well,,,,,,,that's like comparing their opinions to armpits,......everyone has at least one, and most of the time, they stink!!!!!

  39. Jon Burrows South Carolina

    Judges...lets be serious, they are all appointed and support the people and their beliefs that have nominated them for their bench seat, like you and I these people put their pants on one leg at a time, their opinions, well,,,,,,,that's like comparing their opinions to armpits,......everyone has at least one, and most of the time, they stink!!!!!

  40. Clif Seipel Montville, NJXQ3BS

    Government is based on obsolescence and NOT preservation of historical values. E-10 is a reduction of btu energy content in the gallon of fuel. Hence the output of EVERY vehicle has been DEGRADED !! To go to E-15 is beyond comprehension as an improvement. My 1955 Super 88 Olds got 19 MPG in its day. Then the automotive and government WIZARDS added catalytic converters and instead of improving miles per gallon REDUCED the performance while producing the same combustion products. This is all beyond Obama's comprehension so lets get AMERICA back and make some progress with transportation, employment and preserve our historic vehicles and Patriotic way of life UNDER GOD !!!!.

  41. Charles Blackburn Sanford, N.C.

    I just pull a fuel tank off a 1999 Chevy. Astro to replace the fuel pump, the Astro had been sitting a couple month . the lady that has it did not have the money that the Ford comp wante to replace it. Some were @ $800.00, anyway when i pull the tank off and the pump out ,It had black tar like in the tank.It was so bad tha i just got a new tank and pump for less then $250 buck and about an hour to change it out. That a rip off from Gas comp. and auto comp.That tar in the tanks came from the 10% ethonol. the corn that they make it from is full of sugar and that what we putting in our tanks. So far i have been able to put gas with out ethonol in it. my 1958 Buick One station here in Sanford.

  42. Warren Arizona

    People, this is what you get for repeatedly voting Republican/Democrat.

  43. Alex Ariv Seattle, WA

    If its such a good fuel, wonder why corn farmers operate using diesel?

  44. Josh Dallas, TX

    It'd be nice if we could get groups to come out against E10 the way they have against E15. Auto manufacturers explaining how damaging even the E10 is might make them reverse their decision and give up their current pursuit as a fool's errand

  45. gary eastern Va.

    hate the e-gas have to rebuild all my carbs on all my mowers chainsaws small engines every year...plus it is no good after 35-40 days ....i need to know what am i suppose to do with all this dead gas???????i pay top dollar for ir and cant use it....guess you are suppose to dump it ..?

  46. Bob Plassman Southport, NC

    My 1946 Ford continues to soldier on in spite of the government mandates. Here on the Atlantic coast I can obtain marine fuel (no ethanol) at a premium price, but if I have to purchase fuel away from home, I dump into the tank along with the E-15 fuel all manner of additives (Sta-bil, etc) and carry with me a spare fuel pump. Someday I'll get stuck, but for now, motor on, folks!

  47. Barry Denver

    WAKE UP AMERICA, keep voting in the tree hugging liberals and that's what we get. MORE GOV'T control and more E10 and E15. They don't care about our antique and classic cars.

  48. Mel K Major NW PA

    What will it take to eliminate corn completely from our fuel?? Everyone knows the fuel starts to break down in 30 days and the lastest tests show it pollutes the air more than the original ethynol FREE gas did.. You notice small engines and boats are affected first. They don't have constant use. Oh, by the way, classic and muscle cars also fall into that category. What is the government motivation to destroy our small engines, of which, a large number support small businesses like lanscapers, then destroy priceless historical vehicles. Then take our prime farm land which should be dedicated to food production, and use it to grow corn to burn. If anyone could dig deep into the dirt, you will find big business is behind it with a huge lobby in Washington. Another way to rob money from the general public without a gun.

  49. Frank Arab, Alabama

    I don't want to turn this into a political forum but the simple fact remains that the EPA has overstepped it's boundaires again in attempting to mandate our use of fossil fuels. The entire agency was founded on a different premise but like all government agencies has gotten way out of hand. Instead of serving the people it is controlling the people. This whole idea of E15 is a farce and long term damage of vehicles is highly likely. I am not sure what this fascination is with ethanol as it consummes a huge part of the nation's corn crop, costs statistically way more to produce by burning energy and has caused undue hardship on the vehicle manufacturers as well as the consumer. Where is the efficiency and payback? The current adminstration has pushed this agenda further and it is time for us to stop it now and relook at our fuels and policies concerning it. Face it ethanol is NOT going to reduce our dependence on gasoline, oil or the like. It will take realisitcally a lot of years to wean this country off the fuels we use so stop mandating all of these short term ridiculous unproven solutions. Ethanol is a dying fad as people have come to realize it's issues. Make some changes in November and perhaps more reasonable heads will prevail regarding the use of these alternative fuels. Let's look at a parallel energy poilcy that continues to use fuels efficiently and also develops alternatives concurrently instead of cramming E15 and others down our throats....especially at taxpayer expense. Besdies my 66 Olds 442 and my 83 Hurst Olds hates ethanol. Just sayin....

  50. STEFAN HOUMA, LOUISIANA

    1. This is STILL a capitalist society. vote with your dollars. drive out of your way if you have to, but don't put corn in your tanks! 2. Inform your local gas station owner or manager as to why you CAN'T frequent their store any longer. Yes, they have to be told that ethanol is bad, because most of them know little to nothing about the products they sell. 3. Anytime something stinks, FOLLOW THE MONEY!!! Corn farmers receiving subsidies from the fed -> corn lobbyists bribing members congress -> congress writing bad law to support huge subsidies to farmers = corn in your tanks. vote the bums out of office!! Elect officials who will reverse the trend of government interference with the natural order of SUPPLY AND DEMAND. Call and email your elected officials and tell them to scale back govt. interference with gasoline and diesel formulations. (THIS MEDDLING WITH FORMULATIONS DRIVES UP FUEL COSTS!! GAS IN SOUTH AMERICA IS .35 CENTS A GALLON!!) Yes, they must be told, For they are like children, THEY WILL ONLY GET AWAY WITH WHAT YOU LET THEM. THE FOX IS IN THE HEN HOUSE PEOPLE!!! 4. Stop all imported oil. The U.S. doesn't need a drop of imported oil... Don't you ever believe that there was, or ever will be a shortage of domestic oil in the U.S. this is a huge lie that has been forced upon the public. We have in excess of a 100 year supply, and this is only in the places that have been explored, many many places have not been explored yet. 5. IF YOU ARE FED UP WITH IT, THEN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!

  51. John California

    Auto's are not the only engines. Light Aircraft / Sport Aircraft have a bigger problem. The fuel will separate with temp. cahange and altitude an you pickup water. What do you think happens next! Most Light Sport flyers use Pump Gas not 100LL Ave gas. The EPA will be the Death of this country yet.

  52. Keith long island

    You just know that stations will not sell E10 and E15.They will drop E10.Corn growers spend big money lobbying in Washington!Right now the only way to get ethanol free gas on long island is to buy race gas in a 5 gallon drum for $90.Thats $360 to fill up the GTO.Insane!!!!

  53. Ski Virginia

    I can't imagine having to run E15 in my Karman Ghia. E10 is bad enough having to change fuel lines and inlet hoses to the fuel tank repeatedly. Luckily we have a station close that sells ethanol free but it is a lot more expensive even as 87 octane. Remember , corn is for popping at the movies , not my gas tank!

  54. jim Ft Lauderdale Fl.

    E10 and E15 is to Gas engines as smoking is to Humans. The big difference is E10 and E15 is shoved down our throat by our own government and we have no choice but to take it. Whereas smoking a cigarette, was our choice and we didn't know any better. Now the lawyers that brought on the class-action suit, against the two Tobacco companies. Should see the dollar signs in suing the United States government. I would like to be the first to sign up on a class-action suit, against the EPA, the Judges David Sentelle and David Tatel , the farmers that grow the corn being subsidized by our tax dollars and then selling it to our government, to be distributed out to all Americans, in fact, anyone involved in making E10 and E15, should be brought into that class-action suit, against each and every single one of them.

  55. Gale Meier Boring Or.

    When you lose fuel, ( include Diesel ), mileage, say 10%, you have to purchase 10% more fuel, Our Govt. gets a nice iscrease in their taxes, and are laughing all the way to the bank

  56. littlebill Boise ID

    So what can we do about it? It is my understanding in most major cities the gas delivered to the tank farms is non-ethanol. The blending takes place at this distribution center. If you can gather enough support to convince at least one retailer to carry non-ethanol and your group will buy it regardless of the higher price, you now have a source. In Boise we have two companies that continue to provide us with real gas. But our commitment to buy from them must be total. Don't fuel up your newer cars with the E-crap just because it is cheaper. If you let these folks fail because you are too cheap to buy all your fuel from them, YOU lose. Another way you surely lose, is by doing nothing! The greenies are a formidable movement even though somewhat misguided at times. So go to work on a solution or accept the consequences.

  57. Dr. William S. Eickhorst Kansas City, MO

    The whole Ethanol deal is nothing more than another scam run by the Dept. of Agriculture to benefit the large Co-Ops in the corn producing states here in the Midwest. Members of congress from these states see it as another form of pork they can bring back to their constituents. It doesn't help small farmers at all. There are basically three things you can do with corn: 1. eat it, 2. use it for animal feed, or 3. use it to make Ethenol. Why are we using 40-45% of our corn crop to make a fuel that gets less gas milage, harms engines and decreases performance? Like everything else in Washington, all we need to do is follow the money trail!

  58. mike linder white city, oregon

    I repair damage to vehicals every day from the effects or ethanal. Leave a little in your lawn mower over the winter and try to get it started in the spring. With the drought in the midwest and the shortage of food to feed livestock, why bare we even arguing with dumbass judges about things they know nothing about. MONEY.

  59. Steve Goldenberg United States

    We who own classic performance cars want then to last for many years. We spend a great deal to maintain these vehicles so others may enjoy them as well as we do. We display them at car shows, parades and public gatherings. By putting ethanol in the blend, it causes us to put in other additives just to keep them running at peak performance. Why should we be punished with extra expenses. Keep our gas pure at least at one pump at the stations. It's only fair!!! Since you wish to decrease our need for fosil fule make more hybrids and charge less for them. Stop screwing the classic car industry!!!

  60. David Scarborough Ontario Canada

    Barry in Arizona said ... "WAKE UP AMERICA, keep voting in the tree hugging liberals and that's what we get. MORE GOV'T control and more E10 and E15. They don't care about our antique and classic cars. " Did Barry know that in 2005 the U.S. became the world's largest producer of Ethanol Fuel? I recall that the Liberals/Democrats were not in power then... as a matter of fact it was the middle of the Conservative/Republican period. What I am hinting at is that Democrat or Republican matters less than the effect of special interests and lobbyists. We see a similar but slower movement toward ethanol here in Canada and yet we import ZERO oil. We have more than we can use and the U.S. is our biggest customer. Canada's weakness is a lack of refineries.

  61. David Scarborough Ontario Canada

    Barry in Arizona said ... "WAKE UP AMERICA, keep voting in the tree hugging liberals and that's what we get. MORE GOV'T control and more E10 and E15. They don't care about our antique and classic cars. " Did Barry know that in 2005 the U.S. became the world's largest producer of Ethanol Fuel? I recall that the Liberals/Democrats were not in power then... as a matter of fact it was the middle of the Conservative/Republican period. What I am hinting at is that Democrat or Republican matters less than the effect of special interests and lobbyists. We see a similar but slower movement toward ethanol here in Canada and yet we import ZERO oil. We have more than we can use and the U.S. is our biggest customer. Canada's weakness is a lack of refineries.

  62. David Scarborough Ontario Canada

    Barry in Arizona said ... "WAKE UP AMERICA, keep voting in the tree hugging liberals and that's what we get. MORE GOV'T control and more E10 and E15. They don't care about our antique and classic cars. " Did Barry know that in 2005 the U.S. became the world's largest producer of Ethanol Fuel? I recall that the Liberals/Democrats were not in power then... as a matter of fact it was the middle of the Conservative/Republican period. What I am hinting at is that Democrat or Republican matters less than the effect of special interests and lobbyists. We see a similar but slower movement toward ethanol here in Canada and yet we import ZERO oil. We have more than we can use and the U.S. is our biggest customer. Canada's weakness is a lack of refineries.

  63. Ernest New Jersey

    Have a 1970 Mercury Marquis, unrestored 87,000 miles stock * in need of body work but, runs like a top ! I put lead substitute octain booster water remover, in the tank, I tune it test it tune again. Run it out do it again. Stock motor carb ignition. Yes the ethenol is a pain & as long as I care for it check clean plugs it runs good not great but, good. My 1969 ford XL 429CJ is the same but a bit more diffacukt to tune with ethenol. So I'm going to convert to all ethenol pumps will soon offer it, Older classics in mint cond. I understand the troubles & injustice ! I sign every time it comes up to at least make stations carry all types of fuel why not let "we the people " decied what we run our cars on. Flex feul cars are the norm now so people without skills wont be botherd & those with the skills can choose & tune freely. Jusy my solution & opinion

  64. Marko Portland or

    With all the hunger in the world farmland should be used for food not fuel. When farmers are plowing up food crops to raise fuel crops it's a sad day. How much fuel is used to produce 1 gallon on boi fuel? I've heard it's about 1 to 1, could this be true?

  65. JL Crabtree Scottsdale, AZ

    The first year we had ethanol in all of our petrol here, it caused the fuel line in my 1975 BMW to crystalize and break - while I was driving! I could have become a rolling fireball! Aside from that one safety incident, turning food into fuel is an idiotic idea. We also use natural gas to fire the stills so we actually use more energy to produce this stuff than the energy we get out of it! This is not a liberal/conservative thing. This is a greedy corporate thing. The huge agribusiness companies bought our government, force us to buy this overpriced "fuel" while they get subsidies to produce it. That's while the soil holds out. Plant corn too many seasons in a row and grow it with chemical fertilizer and the soil will give out. Then we won't have food or fuel.

  66. Dangerous Dave Puyallup Wa. 98374

    I had my MG 1800 head rebuilt 6000 miles ago. and had to take it back to the shop because the Ethanol was burning to dang hot on #2 and 3 cyl. resulting in burnt valves. I have 4 other MG's and have started haveing fuel related brake-downs with them also. I have found a Ethanol free prem. gas pump on Meridian across from the old safeway store. $$ a little higher. but so is the time and $$ spent on tearing down our eng. DAM IT GET THE CORN OUT OF GAS AND LEAVE IT IN THE MOON-SHINE WHERE IT DOSE THE MOST GOOD......

  67. Brian Houston, TX

    I wish everyone would ask if oil companies are jacking up the prices and then really listen to the answer. The oil companies do not control the price of gasoline nor crude oil for that matter. Let me answer that question in 3 parts…first, who are the “oil companies?”… Who are the oil companies? Most people hear about the “big (bad) oil companies” without a clue of who they’re talking about. The oil companies are owned by the shareholders, which include unions (including teacher’s unions), private investors, mutual funds (including retirement funds), etc. ExxonMobil, the biggest oil company on the planet is about 90% owned by the groups I mentioned. So the “profits” these companies make after paying the most taxes of any group (in total $’s) is indirectly put back into the nation’s economy through consumer spending…you spend money don’t you? I bet your retirement fund invests in oil companies including ExxonMobil. What causes the price of gasoline to go up? Well that’s easy…gas goes up when the price of crude oil goes up, but I’ll address that in part three of my answer. But to fully understand the price of gasoline, you have to know who owns the refineries. Everyone thinks that big oil companies own refineries and they control the price of oil so that’s why gasoline is priced by big oil companies. Wrong. While big oil companies own some refineries, there are a lot of independent refineries. So the “big” refineries have to compete with the “independents,” but even with all the refineries operating at full capacity, they can barely keep up with the US demand. That’s because, the price of gasoline is so low and the environmental regulations are so strict that no company can afford to build a refinery at today’s prices. That’s right, I said the price of gasoline is too low. All of the oil companies that own refineries have then split out into separate business units because the government requires them to be competitive with the independents and buy crude oil at current market price. Otherwise ExxonMobil Production company could “donate” crude oil as a feed stock which would lower the taxes paid to the federal government and give ExxonMobil Refinery an unfair advantage where they could lower gasoline prices because of “donated” crude. That would cause the independents to go out of business…hence Antitrust and FTC violations. So it is the government, supply and demand, and the price of crude that causes gasoline prices to increase. So why is the price of crude so high, especially when we have plenty at our fingertips? Another easy answer with a surprising twist. Crude oil is priced by an international market driven by supply and demand. Every developed nation has increased demand and China is increasing demand at an exponential rate. At the same time, Obama (through his overhaul of the Minerals Management Service) has made it more expensive and difficult for companies to produce domestic oil, so we are increasing our demand on foreign oil, which is priced by the world consumers, not the oil companies. In fact, much of the world’s oil production is owned by governments of foreign countries, including that which is produced internationally by ExxonMobil and other big oil companies. After the infamous “Macondo” BP oil spill in the gulf of Mexico, Obama (by his direction to the MMS) unnecessarily cancelled all drilling permits in the Gulf, which caused many drilling rigs to leave the country. He also changed regulations to cause companies to have unlimited monetary risk (it used to be capped at $75 Million), undergo ridiculous “studies” before they drill (like worst case runaway spill volumes), and allowed extremist environmentalist groups to stop drilling at the last minute by filling lawsuits just in the nick of time to cause the “big” oil companies the most hardship possible. With all of this, deepwater wells the used to cost about $100 million dollars to drill now cost $300 million (EACH). So let’s take a reservoir of 100 Million Barrels of oil equivalent. At a price of $100/barrel, and a reasonable recovery factor of 40%, the total revenue from that field in the Gulf of Mexico would be about $100 x 100,000,000 x .4 = $4 billion dollars. To reasonably produce that field, at least 5 wells would be drilled at a total cost of $1.5 billion, subsea infrastructure at a cost of about $1 billion and a floating production system with export pipelines will have to be built at a minimum cost of $1 billion. Doing simple addition, that’s $3.5 billion cost to make $4 billion revenue for a net $0.5 billion profit. Right?....no…that’s is wrong…it’s not that simple. Most of the cost is spent up front. Most of the revenue starts in year 4 or 5 and comes over a period of 5 to 10 years. So you have to consider the time value of money and discount everything back to a net present value using at least 5% discount factor (the interest rate to borrow money). That cuts the actual value of the profit down to about $350 million, or just a little more than the cost of 1 well. So what happens if the well is a dry hole?...you guessed it…it comes right out of profit. So with the risk so great, why would anyone want to drill in the Gulf of Mexico you ask?...because many people in the oil industry like me still believe in the American way of life and have hope that we haven’t lost our ability to sustain it. Oh…and as an afterthought…Obama didn’t approve the Keystone XL pipeline…a conduit to bring Friendly Canadian oil to the US refineries. His approval would have had an immediate effect on oil prices because oil is priced on “futures.” And now for a bonus question relevant to the topic of this forum…Why does your car get less fuel mileage than what the manufacturer claims and how can they do that? I love this question….another easy answer. Because your car was designed to run on liquid gasoline fuel and tested with pure gasoline. Enter our government with “renewable” fuel subsidies (and you pay for that in gasoline taxes by the way). It’s mandatory that a significant portion of motor fuels be blended with up to 10% ethanol (and now15%) that has only 2/3’s the energy of pure gasoline and a lower vapor pressure to boot. So the result is, with ethanol blended fuel, you get lower gas mileage which means you have to buy more to go the same distance, which means more taxes to subsidize more ethanol. The lower vapor pressure means the fuel also evaporates easier from your tank and it has an affinity for water, so it sucks water out of the air over time, which also lowers the energy value of the fuel. So if you’re not filling up at least once a week, you’re losing a lot of fuel energy by leaving the fuel sitting in your tank. In conclusion…I’m all for protecting the environment with reasonable safety measures that already exist, and we need to pursue all means of developing all energy sources (oil, gas, renewable, nuclear, solar, wind, geothermal, etc), but we need to not unfairly penalize the cheapest and most abundant energy source that we have, oil and gas. In fact, we have an estimated 200 year supply of just natural gas. If you converted your car to run on natural gas, it would cost you about $1/gal today. So why don’t hear of any government push to get natural gas infrastructure in place to allow cars and trucks to use nat gas?...it’s because certain factions of the government don’t want to lose the taxes derived from “big” oil companies through the sale of gasoline. Our country needs to follow the lead of Spain and immediately cancel all fuel development subsidies and let free market work. Then the cost of gasoline will go down. Also, did you know that about half of Americans now receive direct government support? If you continue to give money to people who feel that they are entitled to the same lifestyle as those who earn their own without government support, how do you think we are going to be when 100% of the people are on government subsistence? Those addicted to government support will always vote for those who promise to take from the “rich” and give them what they want. I have hope for change…and I hope that is a change of leader in November. By the way, there are a lot of republicans who choose to ignore the facts and vote for corn-to-ethanol subsidies to favor their special interest groups and there are some democrats that vote for oil and gas too.

  68. Eric r Fort worth Texas

    Ethanol takes an enormous amount of water to produce. In Minnesota some wells are drying up because of the excessive water pulled out for ethanol. I have been using a product called ethanol shield, it makes me feel better anyway.

  69. Eric r Fort worth Texas

    Ethanol takes an enormous amount of water to produce. In Minnesota some wells are drying up because of the excessive water pulled out for ethanol. I have been using a product called ethanol shield, it makes me feel better anyway.

  70. Nodockyet Pascagoula, MS

    OK, so we've all vented about how much we hate ethanol. Obviously it is not going away. At least not in the near future. So, how do we deal with it? If non-ethanol gas isn't available what is the best alternative? Which additive is best to use? How do we best protect our toys?

  71. Mel Frank Charlotte, NC

    I avoid ethanol infused gasoline in all our cars, chain saw, etc. It is a bad idea to use our energy to turn a food product into fuel using federal tax dollar subsidy. We have to eat, in fact we can feed the world, but we don't have to drive. That said, at some NC stations ALL pumps have signs that read "fuel may contain up to 10% ethanol." It is important to note that the court merely decided that eteanol is legally an option, not a requirement. No one is forced to use it. The market decides. Be fair with your responses.

  72. Richard United States

    Not too long ago Diane Finstein, tried to exempt California from the ethanol mandate because the refiners here were using a better method of cracking to make fuel. The senate of the United States shot her down and we continue making fuel with the ethanol additive , Her biggest detractor was Senate HARKIN SPRAY CORN OIL IN A PAN FOR COOKING AND SEE THE STICKEY MESS YOU HAVE TO CLEAN UP WHEN IT GETS HOT.

  73. Richard United States

    Not too long ago Diane Finstein, tried to exempt California from the ethanol mandate because the refiners here were using a better method of cracking to make fuel. The senate of the United States shot her down and we continue making fuel with the ethanol additive , Her biggest detractor was Senate HARKIN SPRAY CORN OIL IN A PAN FOR COOKING AND SEE THE STICKEY MESS YOU HAVE TO CLEAN UP WHEN IT GETS HOT.

  74. Mark ma

    IT IS MORALY WRONG TO BE FUELING OUR CARS WITH FOOD WHEN PEPOLE ARE STARVING!

  75. Mark ma

    IT IS MORALY WRONG TO BE FUELING OUR CARS WITH FOOD WHEN PEPOLE ARE STARVING!

  76. Fred NY

    I hate ethanol fuel.... I try to run all my seasonal small engine equipment dry to keep this crap from eating everything. I have been running non ethanol fuel bought at a marina @$5 a gallon all summer in my old cars, and lawnmower, but was told that that they could only sell it during the boating season and it was unavailable after September 15th. I too noticed how much better everything ran on non ethanol. Unfortunately, they and myself are out of non ethanol, a 5 gallon can only lasts so long. I too am upset at this judges ruling. Do you think a gas station is going to put in a special pump or tank for E15? Small volume dealers are just going to full up all their tanks with this crap and we'll be screwed. Big business runs this country and this is what we get. Little guys dont have lobbists or deep pockets like the corporations, who are now considered 'people". They can spend as much money as they like to influence our politicans, whose only job is to get re-elected. "We the People", are screwed.

  77. Mike Kentucky

    Agree with all of the above. I am a store manager for a national auto parts chain and a few days back day a lawn mower guy came in wit fuel filter with black crap in it. He bought new filter, he thought it was rust. One look and I knew right away what had happened. Shook the stuff out and sure enough, it was rubbery. Told him at a minimum he would have to replace his lines. Our fuel injector lines should work but I also told him his carb was next likely to have issues.

  78. Mike Kentucky

    Agree with all of the above. I am a store manager for a national auto parts chain and a few days back day a lawn mower guy came in wit fuel filter with black crap in it. He bought new filter, he thought it was rust. One look and I knew right away what had happened. Shook the stuff out and sure enough, it was rubbery. Told him at a minimum he would have to replace his lines. Our fuel injector lines should work but I also told him his carb was next likely to have issues.

  79. Mike Kentucky

    Also, many do not realize that the ONLY way ethanol is transported is buy truck or rail. No pipelines currently provide it that I am aware of. And how are trucks and trains powered: DIESEL! Fossil fuels! When combined with the well known reduction in fuel mileage, you are actually burning more fossil fuels to use it. So what is ethanol's carbon foot print? NO ONE wants to answer that one!

  80. Billy-bob hills of mt. rainier

    I'm with that there feller D.D. leave me corn shine alone.. I need pure non-ethanol to out run those hillbilly redneck cops.. Me cousin loose foot annie blown her head gasket on her 383 charger just the other day out-running those fellers.. thanks

  81. Richard Sudbury, MA

    Those of you who live in states (WI, NY, others) where ethanol free gas is available are lucky. Pity us who have no choice.

  82. Martin Glendale, ca

    OK!!! OK!!! Vote all these "we know what is best for you" Dumbocrats out of office and start taking responsibility for yourselves. As long as these turkeys who know what is best for you have the power to do it to you they will.

  83. Pilot Paul Texas

    You have to think smarter and protect your car. There is an alternative, even if non-ethanol fuel is not available at the pump. Most small municipal airports have self fueling stations for airplanes. At this pump you can buy 100 low lead, or 100LL. This fuel contains a small amount of lead and when leaned down, it is 100 octane. It contains stabilizing agents and cleaners. It usually runs about $1.00 a gallon more than super unleaded. Best of all it does not contain ethanol and thus, no water in the fuel. This fuel has a higher flash point, evaporates without the varnish buildup, and works in older cars with high compression and built to lube valves with lead. Quit your complaining, get out your gas cans and get to the airport. I use this in my small engines and yard equipment as well. Since I started using 100LL , I have had zero repairs and all my engines run great.

  84. Robert S. Buffalo,N.Y.

    Ethanol is crap always was always will be. It ruined our cars in the '70's when the government in all there wisdom decided to add this crap to our gas.That was the beginning of the destruction of our cars.Then they did away with it for awhile and now it's back destoying everything internal in your automobile. My question is why is the government insisting on adding more of this crap to our gas,knowing full well it's not good for anything,except corn on the cob? I do own a 68 dodge charger and have noticed overheating,poor performance,hard starting,ect. So why are we still producing this stuff the gov. and big oil companies need to put this in their cars and leave us alone and give us choice to what we want to put in our tank!!!

  85. Shawn Skaneateles, NY

    There are several sides to to this story, but I'll stick with mine :D E15 will only be offered at SEPARATE pumps than the E10 because the in ground tanks cant handle it either LOL! Any station wishing to sell E!% will need to install new in ground tanks and new pumps for it. I don't see that happening. I currently manage a small engine repair center & agree with most of the comments above. It is NOT good for ANYTHING except POSSIBLY your daily driven vehicle if it's new enough & a FLEX FUEL vehicle. I've sold more fuel lines this year than the last 3 years COMBINED. Ethanol is weird stuff, it hardens the rubber diaphragm in small engine fuel pumps, yet eats rubber fuel lines. The ethanol also "cleans" varnish from gas tanks & carbs which sounds good, except it then becomes lodged in the tiny passage ways in your carb causing running concerns.

  86. NORMAN HART oregon

    Am I the only one to notice gas (road) tax is collected on per gallon sold. Fewer mile's per gallon is revenue in tax colletors account. But to the same end Oregon requires ethanol fuel except in government vehicles because thier people complained about the expense of repairs, poor performance, poor mileage, and the expense of fuel.

  87. Gene McF Houston

    Brian in Houston is right on. His comments are a long read, but he covers it well. Go up & read it if you skipped over it. Now, where can I buy straight gasoline at a pump in SW Houston? Do I have to order drums from a jobber?

  88. Gene McF Houston

    Brian in Houston is right on. His comments are a long read, but he covers it well. Go up & read it if you skipped over it. Now, where can I buy straight gasoline at a pump in SW Houston? Do I have to order drums from a jobber?

  89. johnny texas

    i have a 1980 gmc caballero . i had stainless steel fuel lines and it did not vapor lock before the ethanol was put in the gas. i had to put rubber lines to stop the problem

  90. gary Munising , mich

    Though it is costly , several of our gas stations here have e free gas , though it be high octane , we at least have the option. My wife FJ Crusier has a tag on the gas cap stating that high octane fuel is required and we have noticed a milage increase by about 2 mph. I think toyota knows what they are doing.

  91. Eric Bjornstad Orleans NE

    I am so sick and tired of hearing people gripe about ethanol. I have run it in every car and pickup I have owned since the 1980's. One of these was a '78 ranchero with 12:1 compression and another is a '72 Corvette with a 300 HP 350. There have been NO modifications to fuel system components and ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEMS!!!!. Most of you complainers are probably people who would get on the bandwagon to take Di-hydrogen Oxide out of rivers, lakes, and streams......THINK ABOUT IT!

  92. June Bug 2403 Converse TX

    I have a 47 ford coupe chevrolet big block 454 dual carb and use Shell super with no problems yet. Got some friends with 383 strokers use the same and no problems.

  93. AJ Orlando

    heres a bit of info for you all have a neighbor who had just purchased a brand new, I mean NEW VW Jetta, it has 64 miles on it, filled it up with the high price E-85 fuel and has had nothing but problems with it. heres the story,... he returned the vehicle back to the dealership because it would not run, the dealership removed the fuel tank and the cylinder head only to learn that the vehicle valve train was ruined burnt valve edges the gas tank and fuel line after being drained and flushed showed early signs of corrosion..by using the E-85 fuel. now even the dealership refuses to repair this motor vehicle! so the poor guy has a payment every month for a car he can't use and litigation problem piled on top.. stay clear of using that E-85 fuel.

  94. frank colorado

    The level of corn fed fuel is already an issue at altitude add summer heat and it is a real issue. The reality is that no one in D.C. cares about the history involved in our pride and joys.The environment is all that matters; as long as there is a profit to be made irregardless too the cost too the driving public....us....

  95. Christian I have always loved Psalm 46. Verse 10 Be still, and know that I am God, I will be eaxtled among the nations, I will be eaxtled in the earthWhen my husband and I were first married and in California in the military we went to Sequoia Natl. Park to see the huge trees and mountains. What beauty! It was a dream come true for us to be there and just feel the majesty of His creation. Early one morning we went down to Kings Valley and there is a place I will never forget. It wasso early there were no other cars as we left the higher elevations for the Valley. Morning mists were rising over a river that ran along the road. We finally came to a spot that we could park. We walked over to a small pond and as we approached a small deer heard us and ran off. As I looked up to the peaks of the mountains above us taking in the trees surrounding us ,the quiet stillnes of the water the King kissed me with His words Be still and know that I am GodBe still What a gift! Our God who created all of this beauty and majesty of our earth, the God of Jacob, our fortress! This Lord Almighty is with us, always! Though the earth quakes and the mountains fall into the sea Be Still and know that I am GodBe stillMy prayers for each of you!!!

    I have always loved Psalm 46. Verse 10 Be still, and know that I am God, I will be eaxtled among the nations, I will be eaxtled in the earthWhen my husband and I were first married and in California in the military we went to Sequoia Natl. Park to see the huge trees and mountains. What beauty! It was a dream come true for us to be there and just feel the majesty of His creation. Early one morning we went down to Kings Valley and there is a place I will never forget. It wasso early there were no other cars as we left the higher elevations for the Valley. Morning mists were rising over a river that ran along the road. We finally came to a spot that we could park. We walked over to a small pond and as we approached a small deer heard us and ran off. As I looked up to the peaks of the mountains above us taking in the trees surrounding us ,the quiet stillnes of the water the King kissed me with His words Be still and know that I am GodBe still What a gift! Our God who created all of this beauty and majesty of our earth, the God of Jacob, our fortress! This Lord Almighty is with us, always! Though the earth quakes and the mountains fall into the sea Be Still and know that I am GodBe stillMy prayers for each of you!!!

  96. Norm Hart Springfield, Oregon

    I recently asked state rep. why the state suported thru subsidy and state mandated use of e 10 fuel. eventhough the state's own motor pool and all government vehicles were exempt, because the maintainace costs were higher, decreased mpg, performance decrersed. Please note decreased performance and mpg were also enlarging fuel taxes paid to state coffers.decreaseng use of older more polluting vehicles

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